Date   

Re: observation on pricing (was: question) Schools? non-profits

FE Baxter
 

Check the dates your groups were created. You may be "legacy enabled" to have features you need.

I believe I created the groups for our 2 non-profits in time to keep the features we need to maintain our groups even when going down to BASIC for free. As the moderator/owner of groups.io for 2 non-profit animal rescue groups, I understand the need for Mark to have income and the need for small non-profits to have services for an affordable rate. I appreciate Mark having the "legacy enabled" feature.


Re: observation on pricing (was: question)

Diane Arthurs
 

One of my very small card making and swapping groups has moved to facebook (which I really don’t like.)  because I just missed Mark’s cut-off date. Moving the group was on my to-do list and I’m still mad at myself for procrastinating.  The other two were moved from Yahoo to groups.io last year.

Diane in Canada

 

From: main@MMsanctuary.groups.io [mailto:main@MMsanctuary.groups.io] On Behalf Of Deane
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 4:30 PM
To: main@MMsanctuary.groups.io
Subject: Re: [sanctuary] observation on pricing (was: question)

 

Let's reach out to Mark and find out!

His relatively small operation a year ago was flooded with payments to rescue our archives and I'm willing to be that he's been responsible with that  pile of cash knowing that in a year it won't be as much. 

He also mentioned at the end of last year that his was going to revisit pricing so there's more options, so we need to find out his latest thoughts on that.

In my case I spent the big bucks to rescue the two most important yahoogroup archives and groups.io  just got downgraded this week when payment didn't go through. These accounts are near inactive, but the archives represent 20 years of daily history that I will do all I can to permanently preserve way past my lifetime. Suspect others like myself would be interested in a legacy type membership that ensures that the data is not ever lost. Beyond that I"ve not much need for other groups.io features and services. 

How about all the other Yahoogroup refugees? What are your needs? 


Re: observation on pricing (was: question) Schools?

Andy
 

re: "... however, the information is about to move again because I can't pay for the amount he is asking."

Check what level of services you would lose if you stay on groups.io and downgrade to the free plan.  Depending on the date when you first created your group, you might have many more capabilities for free than you think.  Mark Fletcher made it so that groups revert to the level they had earlier, not to the current "free" level.  It all depends on your group's creation date (on groups.io).

Andy



Re: observation on pricing (was: question) Schools?

Delainey Owen
 

If the data is static (additions made but not modifications), what about uploading to the Internet Archive?  Uploads can be marked noindex which means it's not listed (aka no one can find it with a search) and you have to have the link to be able to access it.  You could then post the link to the upload(s) in the group and students could access it that way.

If you need to modify the data frequently, however, then a different solution might be necessary.

Doranwen

On 10/23/20 4:20 PM, Jan Carey via groups.io wrote:
I had the Santa Clara Unified School District Adult Ed's Yahoo school's gardening knowledge moved to groups.io.
I paid for the move from Yahoo with my own money to save that the gardening knowledge files; however, the information is about to move again because I can't pay for the amount he is asking.  Too bad no group.io school accounts, we fundraise 90% of plot/garden repairs, ask students to help to buy the seed packets needed to raise plants, and work in tandem as one gardening community to maintain it (no help with most of the maintaining.) 
We have no fat to cut to pay for this.  Yes, there needs a special category.

 At this time, SCUSD does not use "Canvas" as a school; therefore, I will be moving the files to "One Drive."  My goal at this juncture will be to create a digital database of knowledge for any future Adult Ed gardening teachers.  No more access for the 84+ students, just the way it has to roll.

This gives groups.io the knowledge of why we have to leave. Perhaps they give grants to schools to make it affordable.

Sincerely and sadly,

Janice Carey, Santa Clara Unified School District Garden Instructor








On Friday, October 23, 2020, 3:12:52 PM PDT, Deane <deanerimerman@...> wrote:


Let's reach out to Mark and find out!

His relatively small operation a year ago was flooded with payments to rescue our archives and I'm willing to be that he's been responsible with that  pile of cash knowing that in a year it won't be as much. 

He also mentioned at the end of last year that his was going to revisit pricing so there's more options, so we need to find out his latest thoughts on that.

In my case I spent the big bucks to rescue the two most important yahoogroup archives and groups.io  just got downgraded this week when payment didn't go through. These accounts are near inactive, but the archives represent 20 years of daily history that I will do all I can to permanently preserve way past my lifetime. Suspect others like myself would be interested in a legacy type membership that ensures that the data is not ever lost. Beyond that I"ve not much need for other groups.io features and services. 

How about all the other Yahoogroup refugees? What are your needs? 



Re: observation on pricing (was: question) Schools?

Jan Carey
 

I had the Santa Clara Unified School District Adult Ed's Yahoo school's gardening knowledge moved to groups.io.
I paid for the move from Yahoo with my own money to save that the gardening knowledge files; however, the information is about to move again because I can't pay for the amount he is asking.  Too bad no group.io school accounts, we fundraise 90% of plot/garden repairs, ask students to help to buy the seed packets needed to raise plants, and work in tandem as one gardening community to maintain it (no help with most of the maintaining.) 
We have no fat to cut to pay for this.  Yes, there needs a special category.

 At this time, SCUSD does not use "Canvas" as a school; therefore, I will be moving the files to "One Drive."  My goal at this juncture will be to create a digital database of knowledge for any future Adult Ed gardening teachers.  No more access for the 84+ students, just the way it has to roll.

This gives groups.io the knowledge of why we have to leave. Perhaps they give grants to schools to make it affordable.

Sincerely and sadly,

Janice Carey, Santa Clara Unified School District Garden Instructor








On Friday, October 23, 2020, 3:12:52 PM PDT, Deane <deanerimerman@...> wrote:


Let's reach out to Mark and find out!

His relatively small operation a year ago was flooded with payments to rescue our archives and I'm willing to be that he's been responsible with that  pile of cash knowing that in a year it won't be as much. 

He also mentioned at the end of last year that his was going to revisit pricing so there's more options, so we need to find out his latest thoughts on that.

In my case I spent the big bucks to rescue the two most important yahoogroup archives and groups.io  just got downgraded this week when payment didn't go through. These accounts are near inactive, but the archives represent 20 years of daily history that I will do all I can to permanently preserve way past my lifetime. Suspect others like myself would be interested in a legacy type membership that ensures that the data is not ever lost. Beyond that I"ve not much need for other groups.io features and services. 

How about all the other Yahoogroup refugees? What are your needs? 


Re: observation on pricing (was: question)

 

Let's reach out to Mark and find out!

His relatively small operation a year ago was flooded with payments to rescue our archives and I'm willing to be that he's been responsible with that  pile of cash knowing that in a year it won't be as much. 

He also mentioned at the end of last year that his was going to revisit pricing so there's more options, so we need to find out his latest thoughts on that.

In my case I spent the big bucks to rescue the two most important yahoogroup archives and groups.io  just got downgraded this week when payment didn't go through. These accounts are near inactive, but the archives represent 20 years of daily history that I will do all I can to permanently preserve way past my lifetime. Suspect others like myself would be interested in a legacy type membership that ensures that the data is not ever lost. Beyond that I"ve not much need for other groups.io features and services. 

How about all the other Yahoogroup refugees? What are your needs? 


Re: observation on pricing (was: question)

Simon Hedges
 

David wrote:

 

>> 

I only had one paid-for group, and we’ve downgraded that because we don’t need the Premium features.

To fund the first year and transfer, our members Paypalled-in donations.

Once we’ve filled the Data allowance, we’ll need an annual appeal.

 

I fear that, unless Mark has a lot of Business customers, his income could nose-dive this autumn.

<< 


And I worry that if his income dives, groups.io will fail and close.  I moved 4 groups (with a number of subgroups) across from yahoogroups last year.  They are legacy groups that are used mainly for reference purposes and their archives now.  I’d be content to pay $220 a year across all of them, but $880 is just too much.  I plan to keep one of them as premium in order to provide Mark with an income, but am letting the other 3 go to free.  However, I would prefer the situation regularised.  I just worry that the whole thing isn’t sustainable with the massive drop off in subscription income that groups.io will experience this autumn. 

 

Simon


Re: No place to hide

kr402
 

My two cents worth.
You won't find hands on owner participation anywhere else.
For those that don't want to pay Mark deserves something
for all his hard work. 

KR 




Re: No place to hide

 

Steve,


But I wonder if going back to a niche operation like mailing lists will be
successful in the long run. I hope it is, but I fear that it might not be,
and that will mean that those who use those services will have nowhere to run
to.
 
The best way to ensure that Groups.io is always a place to run to, is to help pay for it.

"My advice has always been that if you want to see GIO stay around, then upgrade to a premium group. That's the best way to show support. That goes for any service, not just us, btw."
Mark Fletcher, beta #22467.

If your group can't afford Premium for a year, perhaps you can afford one month of Premium once a year, or however often suits your circumstances.

It is true that about the only Premium feature you can use practically on an intermittent basis is Direct Add, but some types of groups might have the equivalent of Membership drives. For example I personally paid for a month or two of Premium for my PTA group each year just so that I can direct-add the new parents each Fall rather than having to track invitations. With a few hundred new members each year the reduced effort was worth it to me.

Your circumstances may not include such an obvious advantage/motivation, or an ability to pay, but it is something to consider if you want to be proactive about supporting a service that you would regret losing.

Yahoo had a source of income to keep services going because they offered a
variety of services and could attract advertising revenue.

Brenda and all of the supporters of Mods and Members fought the good fight, but ultimately I believe that they couldn't overcome the question of motivation: how to convince someone else to pay for the specific service you want, when all they want is your eyeballs (and they believe there are more efficient ways to collect eyeballs). With Groups.io the situation is much more directly in our own control: either we the users pay for it, or we don't.

Shal


Re: No place to hide

Steve Hayes
 

On 19 Oct 2020 at 7:58, Andy wrote:

Steve wrote, "So perhaps it's time to say goodbye to everyone left on
YahooGroups and warn them that there is nowhere to flee to ..."

What? Why do you say that?

Isn't there Groups.io?

It's FREE.
Yes it is, for now.

I know what it offers now, and what it used to offer.

And I know what Yahoo offers now, until December, and what it used to offer.

And I understand why groups.io might have to reduce what it offers in the
face of another influx of refugees from YahooGroups -- disk space costs
money, bandwidth costs money, and there has to be a source of income to keep
it going.

Yahoo had a source of income to keep services going because they offered a
variety of services and could attract advertising revenue. They mismanaged
it, failed to understand what made their operation successful and messed it
up. Yahoo had a record of taking over niche operations, messing them up, and
then abandoning them.

But I wonder if going back to a niche operation like mailing lists will be
successful in the long run. I hope it is, but I fear that it might not be,
and that will mean that those who use those services will have nowhere to run
to.

That's all.


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk
Blog: https://methodius.blogspot.com/
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525


Re: question

 

Andy,


I can't find an "Upgrade" page anywhere.

It should be in the left-hand column of page links:

image.png

If you don't see it perhaps you're a moderator without permission for Billing. Or, if you don't see the Admin set of pages at all maybe you're logged in as a member, or not logged in. Or, if it says "Billing" then you're looking at a Premium group.

Out of curiosity -- for groups that started before Oct. 2019 and have "all" the features without paying anything indefinitely, I think they are not quite equivalent to Premium groups, right? 

Correct. Premium groups have 20 GB storage instead of 1 GB, and they have various other features like Direct Add that are not available to legacy Basic groups. In my screenshot note the list of "Legacy Enabled" versus "Not Enabled".

Premium groups supposedly have expedited customer support (for whatever that's worth).  I assume that the free Basic groups started before a year ago don't have that particular feature.

That too is correct.

Shal


Re: question

Andy
 

A couple of days ago, Shal wrote:

    "If you go to the Upgrade page of your groups it will show you which
     features are "legacy enabled". That's a relatively new thing."

I can't find an "Upgrade" page anywhere.

Out of curiosity -- for groups that started before Oct. 2019 and have "all" the features without paying anything indefinitely, I think they are not quite equivalent to Premium groups, right?  Premium groups supposedly have expedited customer support (for whatever that's worth).  I assume that the free Basic groups started before a year ago don't have that particular feature.

Andy


Re: No place to hide

Andy
 

Steve wrote, "So perhaps it's time to say goodbye to everyone left on YahooGroups and warn them that there is nowhere to flee to ..."

What?  Why do you say that?

Isn't there Groups.io?

It's FREE.

Groups.io IS free -- it has a free tier -- and the free level gives you the same functionality (and more) that Yahoo!Groups has today.  Which is, it's an email message reflector, with no permanent storage for Files and Photos.  For new groups, you only need to pay if you need separate Files and Photos sections, that is, having them separate from Attachments (where they are still free).  What's more, Groups.io gives you something that Yahoo!Groups does not have: permanent storage of messages, and permanent storage of Attached Files and Photos.  This makes Groups.io BETTER than Yahoo!Groups is today, for the same price!

And if you created your Groups.io group before August 2020, then you have the separate Files and Photos sections for free too, which makes it functionally equivalent to the features of Yahoo!Groups in its heyday, for free.

If you didn't create your Groups.io before August 2020, then you weren't paying attention when Yahoo pulled the rug out from under you in 2019 and erased all your archived messages and files.  If that didn't matter to you then, then the FREE tier from Groups.io should suit you just fine!

To me, that IS an alternative.  It's a very good alternative.  It is a place to flee to.

I manage a few groups on Groups.io and I'm happy enough with it.  There are some annoyances, for sure, from the Moderator's viewpoint, but regular users for the most part don't see that.

Andy


Re: No place to hide

David Halfpenny
 


On 19 Oct 2020, at 09:43, Nightowl >8# <featheredleader@...> wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:>>So it looks as though the hope that groups.io would provide a sanctuary for refugees from the YahooGroups debacle was misplaced. 

If what you mean is that it's not free anymore, like Yahoo was, that is understandable. 

 I admit, not everyone can afford Mark's new prices.

I’d cheerfully pay Mark an All-Group subscription.
My problem is that I can’t afford to pay separately for each individual group I used to admin.

Fortunately, the last year has demonstrated that Email Only works fine for me.
I realise it won’t for people who used the full range of Yahoo facilities.

The thing that would kill Groups.io for me would be if it stopped storing email attachments (something that Yahoo did for many years).

David 1/2d


Re: groups.io alternative

David Halfpenny
 

Thanks, Shal,

I’m using IMAP with Apple Mail.

This summer, my elderly Mac’s storage became choked solid - even though all my data files are on a separate drive.
So a bought a second Mac with a ludicrously large drive, and set up the same email accounts.
Over the next couple of days, twenty years’ worth of emails rattled onto the new Mac via IMAP, all fully searchable etc.

Now I just need to make sure they’re saved as emails on the new machine.

David 1/2d

On 18 Oct 2020, at 22:43, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

David,

>     I use an Email Client, and /think/ I have them all on my computer,
>     but I’m not certain.

It depends on how your email client is configured.

If you use the IMAP protocol to connect your client to your email service, then your Inbox is on their servers. Other folders can be created either on their servers on your computer. You can manually copy or move messages between folders (server and local) or set up filters to do that.

Additionally, for your Inbox (and any server folders) you can configure your client to keep a local copy of the folder, for use if/when you have no internet connection. This can be convenient while traveling, but it does cost storage space and some extra transmission & compute time to keep the local copy up to date.

If you use the POP protocol [shudder] your client would normally be configured to download messages to a local Inbox and delete them from the server when downloaded. Consider switching to IMAP to get a richer experience, including the abilities below.

> I don’t mind changing from YahooMail to another email provider, but I
> would like advice on how to Save all my old yahoo messages in
> searchable form.

An IMAP client makes a good tool, both for copying messages from your old service to your new one and for searching your messages.

I use Thunderbird to move messages directly between my personal Gmail address and my work email (on Dreamhost) - Thunderbird has the folders of both open and it is as simple as dragging a message from one service's inbox to the other.

I may be spoiled by my use of Eudora and Thunderbird, but I expect an email client to have very facile search capabilities built-in. Far better than having the messages in some other format and trying to use grep, finder, explorer, or other generic search tool.

Shal







Re: No place to hide

Nightowl >8#
 

Steve Hayes wrote:>>So it looks as though the hope that groups.io would provide a sanctuary for refugees from the YahooGroups debacle was misplaced. At first it offered something like the pre-2014 YahooGroups, but now it has been reduced to the severely truncated version of October 2019 to December 2020. Perhaps we are all victims of internet entropy.<<

If what you mean is that it's not free anymore, like Yahoo was, that is understandable. We were all so lucky to have Yahoo groups for free for as long as we had it. Nothing great is usually free, but man, Classic Groups were.

And we got spoiled. It was nice to have something for free, but times have changed. I admit, not everyone can afford Mark's new prices. If I had to, I'd be in trouble, because I can't. My groups including this one, are grandfathered in.

But for the monthly price, of what was it, $20.00 a month for groups.io? That's not a bad price for what all the paid version offers from what I gather. It's a matter of choice, how much you want a group, how much you need from a group, etc.

Steve wrote:>> So perhaps it's time to say goodbye to everyone left on YahooGroups and warn them that there is nowhere to flee to, and how long before groups.io goes the same way?<<

You can say goodbye to everyone from Yahoo Groups if you choose, I plan to stay right here and stay in touch with them. And I don't believe groups.io will go the same way as long as there are people willing to pay for it.

What was it that someone on MM used to say, "Yahoooey...you get what you paid for... ZERO." Can't remember who that was.

They sure proved that right, didn't they?

Brenda


No place to hide

Steve Hayes
 

So it looks as though the hope that groups.io would provide a sanctuary for
refugees from the YahooGroups debacle was misplaced.

At first it offered something like the pre-2014 YahooGroups, but now it has
been reduced to the severely truncated version of October 2019 to December
2020. Perhaps we are all victims of internet entropy.

So perhaps it's time to say goodbye to everyone left on YahooGroups and warn
them that there is nowhere to flee to, and how long before groups.io goes the
same way?


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk
Blog: https://methodius.blogspot.com/
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525


Re: Coping during Covid (was: still not displaying...)

kr402
 

Night owl, I like that topic: "the newly changed world", which I don't like.

❤️ 

KR


On Sunday, October 18, 2020, 7:26 PM, Nightowl >8# <featheredleader@...> wrote:

But we can talk about Covid and the newly changed world in here if you want, or we can move this part of the conversation to Hollow Tree. Just let me know.

Brenda


Re: Coping during Covid (was: still not displaying...)

Nightowl >8#
 

Elizabeth wrote:>> I'm so glad you're keeping Sanctuary and Hollow Tree open. Even though our original cause is lost, you fought a tremendous fight and we all appreciate our Owlsy.<<

This is to everyone here, ok? I changed the title so the topic fits.

I still feel bad that I was unable to save groups in January. I often wonder had I been able to stay focused on the fight in December 2019/January 2020, if I could have finally gotten through to them. But we'll never know.

I had to do what had to be done and that was handle moving my Mom, and then coping with her death, funeral, and moving everything back to the house.

But we did fight a tremendous fight, and I appreciate all of you more than you know. I rescued the archives of MM long ago, when groups.io was just starting out, and they are all here, safe, except for the last few years which are saved in my mail client and or word files.

Since Mom died and my world changed in an instant, and then Covid came along and changed it even more, I have been struggling to reach out and talk to people, both online and off. For some reason I start feeling overwhelmed at times when I try.

But we can talk about Covid and the newly changed world in here if you want, or we can move this part of the conversation to Hollow Tree. Just let me know.

Know I am here for you, even if I'm not here every day or posting. You can always post to me or e-mail to me and I'll answer.

On a good note, both my brother and SIL tested negative for COVID today and are going to be ok! Thank you for all your prayers.

Still here, if you need me,

Brenda


Re: groups.io alternative

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal Farley wrote:>> If you use the IMAP protocol to connect your client to your email service, then your Inbox is on their servers. Other folders can be created either on their servers on your computer. You can manually copy or move messages between folders (server and local) or set up filters to do that.<<

I think that's what I do. I have a huge extensive network of folders on Thunderbird that have every group, posts, mail, e-mails, etc, by person's name or group or category. I move EVERYTHING out of inbox, and should have every single e-mail or post since I started on the computer.

I also moved a lot of older direct e-mails out of Thunderbird and saved those down to my hard drive. And I save all actual e-mail from persons non-group related on my hard drive in text format.

Shal wrote:>>I use Thunderbird to move messages...I may be spoiled by my use of Eudora and Thunderbird, but I expect an email client to have very facile search capabilities built-in. Far better than having the messages in some other format and trying to use grep, finder, explorer, or other generic search tool.<<

Exactly, and that's what I use also, Thunderbird. And it can search my extensive network of folders just fine! :)

Brenda

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